I have managed by and large to keep my 2 cents in my pocket when it comes to the illegal alien/ immigrant, pick your preferred term or insert your own, debate. That is until it affected me directly. For those of you with better short term memory than my own, you may recall that I was recently rear ended in westport, by a large woman of Hispanic origin. Turns out she probably wasn't here legally, didn't have a valid license and couldn't get insurance if she had wanted to. So when I read about states, Kansas possibly soon to be among them, that want to prevent anyone without a green card from getting a license, it pisses me off a little, and solidifies my belief that the folks who run our Governments are completely clueless.
Having worked in the lumber industry for a number of years I'm well aware of the proliferation of Mexican workers , many of whom don't have green cards, who have streamed across our borders over the last decade. Before the ass fell out of the building boom, you could drive through one of the gazillion new JOCO subdivisions, even on a Sunday, and observe 6 or a dozen Mexican roofers slapping shingles down. I also never once heard any of the dozens of builders, contractors or subcontractors complaining about it. These pidgin English speaking shiftless characters worked Sundays holidays and overtime hoping to provide themselves and their families with a better life. The fucking audacity!!!
Clearly they are a threat to our economy, just look at the unemployment rate at a whopping 4.5 percent. Okay, that's a bad example, since that's a near record low. And many of the current unemployed are from the tech markets or a result of the building/real estate bubble bursting and companies like Sprint who outsource customer service jobs to countries that think curry tastes good. But the conservative right tells me I should be worried, so who am I to question them?
So I'm ready to support the campaign to rid the U.S. of these illegal brown devils, who are stealing food service jobs and landscaping gigs at an alarming rate. I'm waiting to hear the master plan. How are we going to round up the 10 or 20 million, depending on who's figures you believe, illegal workers in this country? I'm sure the powers that be have an awesome plan. We couldn't get people out of New Orleans during Katrina, but we can round up millions, fling them back over the border, build a wall really quick, like Wiley Coyote in a Roadrunner cartoon, and all will be good. Before anyone gets their shorts in a wad, I am not, repeat , Not , saying we don't need to stem the flow. I'm saying we need a dose of realism along with plausible solutions.
What is a really bad idea is to legitimize the millions who are here. They are after all for the most part hard working productive people who just want to provide for their kids, and we cant have that shit. Besides if we legitimize them, and make them pay taxes and get insurance, they wont be as big a drain on our system. That would take the whole chicken little, the sky is falling factor out of the equation, and that's no good. Now if you will excuse me ,Ive got to go get some estimates to fix my car, out of my own pocket.
Damn illegal messicans.
This is one of my favorite topics. Most of the discussions introduce faulty logic into the argument by combining 2 separate issues. I agree that Mexicans are taking crappy jobs that nobody wants and work hard. There are people in construction and other trades who would disagree with that because they were priced out of their jobs by said Mexicans. Let's just ignore them, they were overpaid anyway.However,no matter what some people would say, the drain on the economy (or the government resources to be more precise) is real. I am not sure how many countries will just take anybody and allow them all the benefits of a legal resident. If you walk into a hospital in Mexico, do you expect to be treated for free? Do you expect your kids to get on a free lunch program? Will you get food and housing assistance? Will your kids get in-state tuition? Are you allowed to own land in Mexico? I don't have a problem with a need for cheap labor, but that should be it - you come here, pluck chickens, pick strawberries, send your money home and go home when you done. Mexico is only a bus-ride away. On the other hand, if you want to move in- follow the process-get tested for TB,AIDS, whatever,get your shots (I had to), get your papers straight, wait in line, and then be like everyone else. And speak the fucking English.
ReplyDelete¿ Dónde está mi reembolso?
Whether illegal immigrants are a drain on the economy or not depends on how you define it. That issue is far from settled. Plenty of non-partisan economists argue that the there is a net gain or at worse no net loss. Finally, there is no evidence that Americans would be taking the jobs that illegals now take. A few years ago, Johnson County had to get buses to drive into KC to bring people over to work in food service jobs, because no one in JoCo would take the jobs.
ReplyDeleteMM,
ReplyDeleteGood post. While I can certainly see your point, I'm just frustrated that our politicos haven't nailed down a firm plan for immigration. It's real simple, either you close the borders or if you allow any in, they must get "legal" and learn the language of the land. Nothing worse than being a citizen (by birth) and feeling like you're in another country here.
I'd like to thank the one mexican guy who came out to slam out this tile job in my foyer. He was off the hook!! He was an illegal. I felt sorry for him. Can't afford to take days off because he worked for pay. Wanted his cash at the end of each day. Last I checked, he was back in California on some jobs.
I call B.S. State law requires insurance. She didn't have it. Did you call the police? Are you going to sue her in small claims court? If not, why not? If you chose not to, sorry, no sympathy from me. Just pay the bill and hug your illegal alien. Consider it a gift along with the medical bills you pay which have been inflated because of the cost of insuring illegal immigrants who visit the ER as if it was their primary care physician. While you're at it, why don't you write a check to your local board of education to help with the extra costs incurred for ESL classes, free lunches, day care before and after school, etc. And, finally, thank your employer that he hasn't replaced you with an illegal immigrant who will do the work for 1/2 what they pay you.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, God help the illegal immigrantw/o insurance who rams my car.
Travel makes a few assumptions I'd like to see substantiated with facts:
ReplyDelete1) Assumes "extra costs incurred for ESL classes, free lunches, day care before and after school" are costs associated with illegals. Those programs mostly serve those here in the country legally.
2) Assumes the rising cost of health care in this country is due to illegals. The best evidence is that as a percentage of health care inflation, free care for illegals is a drop in the bucket.
Until someone can provide unbiased proof that illegal immigration produces a net deficit to the American economy and solid evidence that illegals are taking jobs that Americans would happily step up and take, it's not worth listening to the same old red herring assertions.
Travel, are you calling bullshit that I was in an accident, or am I misunderstanding you, like you clearly misunderstood me. Yes I called the cops, yes I went to court, guess what, no show. So a small claims case isnt going to do me much good. I send a check to the kansas city school district every year, its called taxes. And if I want sympathy I'll look it up in the dictionary between shit and syphlis, I certainly wont pander for it here. My point, which flew over your head, is that you cant load up 10 or 20 million people and ship them across the border, and if you could they would come back. What you dont do is absolve them of responsibility by taking away their ability to get a license and insurance.It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous: you are asking a question to which you probably know there is no answer because in many places cops,schools, medical professionals are banned from verifying immigration status.So any discussion of a financial impact is just a best guess. My best guess is that money is spent which otherwise wouldn't be spent. Accommodations are made that otherwise would be unnecessary. How much is wasted - no one would have a number.
ReplyDeleteFirst, a little apology. I'm glad you called the police and went to court. I didn't get that from your original post. I was a little hot I'll admit but this illegal immigration issue is a touchy one with me.
ReplyDeleteThe point that we can't deport millions of illegals is well taken but we can reduce the number by attrition by upholding laws. I ask, for example, why wasn't she taken into custody for not having insurance? That is against the law. I know of people who have been jailed for that and they should be. I bet I would be no matter my skin color. The Sheriff's report in my county has daily listings of people incarcerated because they were stopped with no auto insurance.
I guess we can agree to disagree on the license issue. Driving is a privilege, not a right and driver's licenses have been used for other fraudulent activities by illegals. Giving them a license doesn't ensure they'll carry insurance except maybe for the month that they get their license.
As for the issues of who pays for education, medical, etc. .. yes you and I both pay via our taxes. In our District, we are currently on Bond #3, with the last one including millions for expansion of classrooms to accomodate ESL learners in one particular school in the whole district, most of whom are probably illegal.
No, I'm not Semler's cousin. I'm just one of many who are frustrated with our government that refuses to deal with the situation in a way that protects the American citizen first.
To be continued, possibly, at a blogger meet where I'm sure I'll be vilified as one of those uncaring rich Johnson County Republicans..
But, then I have my own story too.
Sorry, once again, if I personally offended. You have a great blog.
No offense taken Travel, its a hot debate, and I agree that there needs to be a viable solution. I just dont think denying a drivers license and the ability to insure their cars is going to solve the problem.They just made her park the car and call someone to come get her, thats the way they roll in KC proper. Ill try to not hold the JOCO thing against you, not sure about the Republican rich part though. Keep coming back, all is good.
ReplyDeleteMidtown great point! This topic of immigration is obviously a topic that we should discuss, but it's definitely a topic that is being blown out of the sky for political gain. These hate laws like in Kansas, Oklahoma and Arizona do absolutely nothing for the good of the state.
ReplyDeleteMeesha, there are studies that show that the "drain" on our economy is nowhere near what Lou Dobbs is telling you. I mentioned Lou Dobbs because you assume that all or most Mexicans have TB, which Lou Dobbs would be your source for assuming so, and that source has been found to be absolutely wrong.
You are assuming a lot of things about Mexico, the United States and the immigrant population. Have you lived in Mexico? Have you seen what a person from Mexico has to do to get a permanent visa? How about just a tourist visa? Did you know that getting a visa from Mexico to the USA is the hardest and most expensive visa to get?
I have lived in Mexico and have seen all of the things that you attempt to speak on, and well everything that you say is completely wrong.
I know many illegal immigrants who overstayed their visa in Mexico and also many legal immigrants in Mexico both of whom love it there. They have property, They have businesses, and yes some do have to pay at hospitals but the price is very very inexpensive even at top rated hospitals which I found better than many hospitals in the US. For those that have found an employer they have what is called IMSS which is free health insurance at hospitals.
Also, Like the immigrants in the United States, these immigrants attempt to learn the language most spoken in the country (Mexico=Spanish), but in the meantime, they proudly speak their first language, and guess what...nobody gives them a hard time for doing so.
Many of them don't pay a dime in taxes, rob the electricity for their businesses without paying for it, and use all kinds of other services in Mexico, but guess what, you see states welcoming them.
You may be wondering who these immigrants are. Well, the ones I speak of come from the good size Russian and Lithuanian communities that consist of many "illegal" immigrants.
I am not saying that immigrants should come here and do all of that, but I am just saying that like Midtown I believe the situation is being exaggerated for one party's political gain. I am also saying that I actually have experienced the things in Mexico that you falsely describe and I have seen people from your community doing the same not just in the US, or in Kansas City, but also around the world. So let's not act like Mexicans are the only people in the world overstaying visas.
Hello! Thanks for writing whatever it is you wrote. Believe it or not,in my whole life I may have seen exactly 3 minutes of Lou Dobbs. Therefore, I don't base anything I say on anything he says. Also I re-read my post and didn't find half of the stuff that you mention I said. I, for example didn't "assume that all or most Mexicans have TB", I did say, however, they should be tested like legal immigrants are. I did find some CDC study on TB that says "More than half (56.0%) of the foreign-born cases in 2005 were reported in persons from Mexico (1,930), the Philippines (826), Vietnam (576), India (563), and China (389)." Notice that I could just copy and paste just the number of Mexicans with TB but I didn't, same rules should apply to all people even Russians and Lithuanians.
ReplyDeleteI also researched a little my statement about owning land in Mexico. I was only partially correct: you can own land in Mexico but not in the restricted zones (where most of the foreigners would like to own land). In these areas there is a process of setting up a trust. By these rules California would be a restricted zone, but anyone can buy land there.I didn't have time to find unbiased sources for the rest of my points, most of the stuff that comes up is some "save our country" type website. I don't doubt many of their facts, but because of their goals people tend to dismiss them as "crazies".
Lastly I never said that I prefer any special illegal immigrant to Mexicans. That's very common -to equate discussing Mexican immigrants with racism. I think that rules should apply equally. However, statistically there is hardly a problem with Russian or Lithuanian illegals.As a matter of fact, if everyone in Lithuania ( Population: 3,575,439 ) would pack up and illegally come here they still will number 20-30% of illegal Mexicans.
These discussions pop up once in awhile and I tend to jump in but it always ends the same - boring and predictable.
great post MM, actually one of my favorites. sorry I don't have time to leave a lengthy response, but you've summed up my feelings quite well.
ReplyDeleteAfter building the wall. Build towers mostly manned by the Minutemen with automatic night sensor machine guns.
ReplyDeleteCool
So what would you do if you livd in Mexico. I'd leave for someplace better. I'd break the law to get here.
ReplyDeleteI would also be very law abiding when I got here. So I feel sorry for illegals. But do not ask me to say that they are O.K. and not illegal. Just because I steal a candy bar doesn;t mean that the law against stealing should be gotten rid of.
Let's take race out of the whole illegal immigrant situation. The reality of the matter is that what they are doing is illegal. Legitimizing illegal immigrants would be rewarding them for breaking the law. Giving children of illegal immigrants who were born in America is also rewarding lawlessness. I am for systematically deporting illegal immigrants and their children all while fortifying our boarders and coasts. It would make more sense to spend money on boarder security then whatever we are spending money on in the Middle East.
ReplyDelete